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[personal profile] robinturner
Apart from the fact that I have a nostalgic attachment to Anglicanism and the clergy is a good way to be paid for shooting your mouth off, one reason I'd like to be a priest is that they get all these really great words like
  • theodicy
  • epiphany
  • transubstantiation
  • ecumenical
  • eschatology
and so forth.

Date: 2003-09-30 11:49 am (UTC)
ext_8724: (Default)
From: [identity profile] chr0me-kitten.livejournal.com
why not be a theologian instead?

Date: 2003-09-30 12:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
That's just another kind of academic, and I'm already an academic (albeit a very minor one). I suppose I don't just want the nice words, I want vestments, chalices and other cool stuff.

Actually, because of historical accidents, I could have forged myself a stellar career as an imam, but I guess it's just not me.

Date: 2003-09-30 01:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
You know, much of Paganism and Buddhism involve the same accoutrements. Ritually speaking.

Date: 2003-10-01 06:17 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Of course. Part of it is due to common historical roots, part because the human mind works in pretty similar ways wherever and whenever you are. In particular, Christian rituals were inevitably influenced by both Jewish and pagan rituals, then when paganism was reinvented in the twentieth century, it drew from the hermetic tradition which was strongly influenced by Christianity.

Date: 2003-10-01 11:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Yes, I know. I just think it's rather unfortunate, however implausible, that one religion can't be different enough to truly stand out from the others. It's been disconcerting to realize that so much of all religions is so similar. And I know I haven't been the only one to want something that didn't draw from Judeo-Christianity or take too much from Buddhism, and certainly didn't borrow at all from Islam! ::shudder:: Too bad we humans haven't been more creative with religion, but it also points out just why some become disinterested.

Date: 2003-10-01 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
What makes Islam worse than Judaism or Christianity?

Date: 2003-10-01 12:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
The way they treat women, for one. You don't think it's worse?

Date: 2003-10-01 01:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
If you're comparing current Islamic societies to current Christian societies, then yes, but that isn't a fair comparison - you're comparing for the most part developing (or very recently developed) societies with post-industrial societies. If you want to compare the religions themselves, you have to look at their actual doctrines, in which case Islam probably comes out better than Christianity.

Date: 2003-10-01 02:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Okay. What I also had in mind, however, and your post here brings it more to light, is that a religion itself influences a society enough to not only determine how various people are treated, but also how quickly that society may progress. I'm sure it makes a difference if one society is materialistic and another not.

Also, doctrines don't mean much when it comes to the actions. If a doctrine can be praised for its egalitarian aspects but the societal aspects of that religion's doctrine cannot be, then why bother comparing them? I understand that many people would fare better if the practitioners/believers would actually LIVE by those doctrines, but I'm sure that also doesn't apply 100%.

Date: 2003-10-01 03:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Well if we're looking at societal effects, it's fair to say that the introduction of Islam had a more positive effect than the introduction of Christianity. However, it may not be fair to compare a religion that started through revolution with one that was adopted for pragmatic reasons by the ruler of a declining empire.

Date: 2003-10-02 12:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
I'm less interested in how a religion began than the effects it's having on the world today. It could very well be that both had a positive impact societally in their early stages, but I'm attempting to weigh those positive effects that might still be evident today with the negative effects (ignorance, oppression).

Date: 2003-10-02 04:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
I think the important thing is to support the progressive elements in any religion. For example, the Church of England used to be described as "the Tory Party at prayer", but during the dark days of Margaret Thatcher, many clergymen came out and opposed the government's inhumane policies, and frequently won a majority in the Synod, amidst much gnashing of conservatvie teeth. Back in the 1980s I visited my local vicar and he lent me a book on Liberation Thoelogy.

The same goes for Islam. Islam is rooted in concepts of equality and social justice. Rather than dismiss Islam, we should be supporting those Muslims who stay true to these ideals. There are plenty of them around, but they don't attract as much media attention as the suicide bombers.

Date: 2003-10-03 11:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
I guess I don't see much progression in religion here in the U.S. Liberation theology, huh? :) I'd like to meet a vicar like that!

I imagine none of the more peaceful, sensible people of either religion is going to attract much attention from the media, who are too quick to air/publish the sensational & fanatical side of ... just about anything (including medicine).

Date: 2003-09-30 12:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
• fundamentalism
• misogyny
• crucifixion

Date: 2003-09-30 12:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Hey, I'm talking Anglican here. As Laurence Stern (Anglican priest and author of the world's first surreal novel) said, "The great thing about the Church of England is that it places no demands upon a man's politics. Or, for that matter, his religion."

Date: 2003-09-30 01:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Oh. Pardon me. :) You mean the Anglican church doesn't have its holy little head up its sacred little ass?? ...Fascinating.

Date: 2003-09-30 02:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
I generally feel that your arse is the best place for your head to be.

Date: 2003-09-30 03:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Well then, perhaps you should invest in an icon similar to this user's KMA icon shown here (http://www.livejournal.com/allpics.bml?user=vordakgef).

*L*

Date: 2003-09-30 01:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brigid-shine.livejournal.com
i say go for it. you'd be a sexy vicar.

Date: 2003-09-30 02:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Why thank you! That's part of the problem though - I really should not be a priest because I'd be getting off on the whole preaching thing. then there's the itty-bitty detail of not believing in the Trinity (or even in God some of the time).

Date: 2003-09-30 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
New icon?! NEW ICON!!!! Cool.

I agree with [livejournal.com profile] brigid_shine. If clerics were like you, I'd seriously consider converting to the Anglican Church. :) (And I mean that even in light of your doubt; that's part of it!) Besides, people who believe in God all the time are pretty scary, aren't they?

Date: 2003-10-01 06:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
I realised that since some kind person bought me a paid account, I can have more icons. Unfortunately I don't have that many good photos.

Anyway, I'm not going to become a vicar or an imam, but I do have my own cult (the Cult of Solri Invictus).

Date: 2003-10-01 11:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
That was nice of them! Well, if you want to send me some photos I could probably fix 'em up in photoshop and make you some cool icons if you want. :)

I didn't think you were serious about the vicar thing. And I remember you already tried to lure me into your cult, heh heh.

Date: 2003-10-01 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
The problem is not the computing side, it's the photograph side - I just don't have that many pictures of myself, and there are fewer still that I could stand seeing in my journal! Maybe when I next go to England I can dig out some of my really old B/W pictures - Solri the teenage hippie.

So why haven't you joined the cult yet? "My yoke is light ..."

Date: 2003-10-01 12:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Teenage Hippie Solri. Heh. :Þ

Could you please explain again the tenets of your Cult? ::evil grin:: ...keeping in mind I'm not all that susceptible to brainwashing.

Date: 2003-10-01 01:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
It's a very honest cult. Most cults say they are about love, world peace, developing the human potential, liberation from materialism etc., when in reality their main purpose is to feed the egos of their members by making them feel special, and feed the ego of the cult leader by praising him/her to the skies. The Cult of Solri Invictus is much more up front - it's basic tenets are:

1. You should feel that you are a very special person because you are a member of the Cult of Solri Invictus.
2. You should support Solri's ego by praising him regularly in the pages of LiveJournal.

Date: 2003-10-01 02:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
1. Oh, I feel more special already! ;Þ

2. All Hail [livejournal.com profile] solri! Our great Lord of Livejournal. Master of Linguistics, Genius Philosopher. ::bowing::

Heh heh. Good enough? :)

Date: 2003-10-01 02:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Consider yourself initiated.

Date: 2003-10-01 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
Woo hoo! ::doing a sexy bellydance::

Hee hee.

Um. Do I get a tattoo on my forehead or something?

Epiphany is a cool word and day

Date: 2003-09-30 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aguirre.livejournal.com
I like having epiphanies, partly because they are like mental explosions, and partly because I was born on epiphany (when the wise men found that little baby)

Re: Epiphany is a cool word and day

Date: 2003-10-01 06:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
And then there's that great scene in Angel where Gunn says "I might just have to get me an epiphany too."

Eschatology...

Date: 2003-09-30 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ankh156.livejournal.com
That's one of my favourites.

"Numinous" is pretty cool too, but that's more a theologist's territory.

;)

Re: Eschatology...

Date: 2003-10-01 06:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] solri.livejournal.com
Oh yes, "numinous" is great, along with "immanent" and "pleroma".

Re: Eschatology...

Date: 2003-10-01 02:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-myst341.livejournal.com
"Cultural bifurcation."

Oh wait--no, that's sociology!

:)

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Robin Turner

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