The Daily Trojan

[robinturner]

While browsing Feministe, I stumbled upon a link to "Feminism to blame for the death of chivalry". The article contains the kind of reaction that was predictable and understandable coming from old gentlemen in the 1970s but seems rather ingenuous coming from college students in the 21st century. In any case, chivalry was not killed by man-eating feminists; it was killed by the invention of the flintlock.

Anyway, what I wanted to mention was not the content of the article (which was utterly predictable) but the name of the student newspaper in which it appeared: The Daily Trojan. What on earth can a daily Trojan be? Is it some kind of Homeric reference, as in "Achilles was out of sorts because he hadn't had his daily Trojan"? Or is it perhaps an attempt to encourage the use of condoms among the student population? This is laudable, but isn't "daily" taking it a bit too far? That might be OK in the holidays, but in term time students should take a few evenings off a week to write essays and study for exams.

Comments

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

The students of the Univ. of Southern California are all Trojans, esp. the athletic team. I don't know anything about the equipment of ancient military officers, but their mascot (on the right of the newspaper's masthead) has always looked more Roman than "Trojan" to me.

(At my university we are Ducks, which evolved from the Webfoots of earlier decades, a reference to our rainy winters.)

[sandokai.livejournal.com]

Wow, now that was funny.


I don't fully understand what chivalry even means, but in my city men do let/make women go onto buses first and then they give up their seats on the bus. Is this chivalry?

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

Wow, when I lived in a city and was visibly pregnant, none of the commuters ever gave up a seat for me.

[sandokai.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's culturally influenced....? I am not sure exactly how to describe the predominant culture here. Caribbean and Latino? At any rate, it's very interesting...

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it's culturally influenced. This was in San Francisco in the early 1980s. If I wanted a seat, I had to ride for several stops in the direction opposite the commute, until I got to a station where the train still had empty seats.

[solri.livejournal.com]

I share your confusion. I'm quite familiar with chivalry in the Medieval sense: it was a code of conduct observed among knights (hence the etymological relationship with "chevalier", "cavalier", "cavalry", "caballero" etc.) - basically an extended warrior ethic analogous to bushido. PArt of this included appropriate ways of behaving towards women. However, the modern "chivalry" is more a kind of noblesse oblige, I think, and this is why feminists object to it.

[solri.livejournal.com]

In my city, you'd have people falling over each other to give a pregnant woman a seat.

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

And I don't think I'd complain or feel demeaned by it.

[solri.livejournal.com]

As women, the traditional gatekeepers and pacesetters, collectively dropped their standards and engaged in commitment-free, purely physical relationships, they opened the door for the treatment that their behavior elicits.

I picked up on that one too. It's only a hair's breadth from "She was asking for it."

[solri.livejournal.com]

Well quite - giving up your seat to a pregnant woman is just like giving it up for someone carrying a child or trying to manage an awkward load of shopping. I do all the above, plus giving up my seat to women who are middle-aged or older, and men who are very noticeably older than me. I don't give up my seat for young, healthy, unencumbered women (especially since in Turkey this would put them in a quandary - here "age before beauty" trumps "ladies first").

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

I would attribute it to politeness, not chivalry, though, and to the fact that you're a human, not a man. I don't ride on buses, but I do hold doors open for anyone who looks encumbered, confused, or slower then I am. I think this includes all the groups you mentioned, plus small children. (Once at the library, a woman scolded her child because I'd held the door for him; I'd have felt better if she'd just prompted him to say 'thank you.')

[eve-prime.livejournal.com]

(Since USC's in our athletic conference, we regularly get to have fun making condom-related remarks about them.)

[notebuyer.livejournal.com]

Actually, I'd say that was pretty accurate. Women teach men how to treat them early on, when men are willing to do anything at all for them (you want the moon and the stars? just hold on a minute.... I'll be back).

"she was asking for it" is, oddly enough, the phrase that most often comes from the guy who was not taught by the women he knew how to listen. Does this mean that she was really asking for it? No. Does this mean that women will be treated more respectfully if they require it? Yes. Does this mean that if only a few women hold up that standard in a society which has dropped it, they are going to have a hard time doing so? Also yes.

And, as someone who went to college in the 70's and who was criticized for opening doors (first day at the college library, first week at the dorm), I'd suggest that the death of proper behavior was not an unsolicited thing. Culturally, we are still trying to recover from the age of stupidity, which began in the 60's and flowered in the 70's: too many people still think of the time as a model, rather than a blot.

[lucy-burb.livejournal.com]

I find that chivalry has expanded to include females as well. I have girls/women hold doors for me, let me go ahead in line if I have a few items, etc. I'm from Western Canada. I've noticed a drop in the younger (school age) generation, though. I teach my kids to offer up their seats for others. I do it as well. They're getting it. I think the death of chivalry, if it has died in some parts of the world, is due to the increased speed at which we live. We're all so busy, rushing here and there, that we don't take the time to practice, or teach chivalry.